Curse

MMSDome · Nov 19, 2009, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evasion Twenty

I cant have a clone to rake the lawn?

PLEASE?

Have children.

damkel · Nov 19, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Cloning eliminates the chance of getting Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STD's) and AID's.

That is superior.

Ok. So if we are talking about human cloning, I'll assume you're talking about somatic cell nuclear transfer or stem cell nuclear transfer and not molecular cloning as used in prokaryotic organisms.

In somatic cell and stem cell cloning, essentially chromosomal DNA from the nucleus of a cell is transferred to either a germ-line cell or a stem-line cell, in both cases the nuclear DNA is removed from the recipient.

The problem with these strategies is that you are inserting 'aged' DNA into a young cell which is then coaxed into development of a new individual. Naturally, this leads to that individual inheriting DNA which is older than the cells themselves.

What happens is that after each successive cell division, telomeric DNA is shortened, this is a nartural phenomenon present in all eukaryotic organisms. With the shortening of the telomeric DNA, in many cases essential coding sequences are lost or otherwise mutated. Meaning that the proteins for which they encode no longer perform their intended function. Ultimately this results the cloned individual being far more susceptible to the genetic diseases associated with aging.

In conclusion.

Your parents might not contract sexual diseases if you were conceived in a test-tube but you sure will die young in any case. You would probably also lead a very debilitated existence.

EDIT: AIDS = Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome. AID's is something else.

AtomicMew · Nov 19, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

@Damkel:
Wrong. What you are describing is sensationalist news (and old news). Telomere shortening is likely not even relevant. Many fully functional healthy mammal clones have been produced since Dolly.

Please read the thread before commenting and do research before acting like you know something.

Bobby2 · Nov 20, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Telomere shortening is likely not even relevant.

Source?

/12chars

AtomicMew · Nov 20, 2009, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Source?

/12chars

Right here.

1123456

Bobby2 · Nov 20, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Interesting

/12

Winterclaw · Nov 20, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

RR, if you bothered to read Liberal Fascism by Goldberg you'd know that fascism is really a left-wing ideology as it is all about the state controlling everything. Right-wing ideologies, like conservatism and libertarianism, deal more with giving individuals the authority to do what they want with their lives for the most part.

Dome, I don't think that the God argument in cloning is irrelevant. One good argument is that God created sex for reproduction because that is the best way to create a new generation. He wanted us to have children a certain way and going against that could incur serious spiritual consequences. It's like saying God's way of reproduction isn't good enough for us so we'll come up with our own method.

Another argument is that God allows free will and in creating clones, you could create something without free will or with lesser capacity for it, in other words creating a crippled being. As I suggested earlier cloning would be a great tool in order to create an Orwellian society because you'd only clone the good little slaves. You'd also make sure, in that society, that cloning would be the only way of reproduction for the slave-masses by disabling the genes for sexual reproduction. That way the state would be the only source for the masses of having kids as well as raising them. In modern liberal speak it isn't fair that some people have a lot of children, that some people can't have any, and that when the poor have children, the kids will be poor too while rich people are having kids who get all the toys; the state should come in and take control over human reproduction in order to make it fair for everyone. That way we won't have rich kids who get everything while poor children are starving. We won't have kids with too few sibilings while we have others with too many. We won't have kids born with certain diseases. We won't have too many kids either because that'll hurt the planet. Do you really think a bureaucratic controlled reproduction system is in accordance with the natural or divine laws? Do you really want a system where some bureaucracy can come in and say, since the government created (or controls the creation of) this clone and because there is this mythical freedom from religion we are enforcing, all clones must be athiests.

Finally cloning could be going against God's will and justice that people have to die. I mean if I could create a clone of myself, and then create a copy of my knowledge, memories, and personality into that clone, in a way I would be trying to cheat death.

I think that there is a lot going on when it comes to cloning and how you create new people and in general morality you can't discount the religious side to things that easily if at all.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 20, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

One person writes a book of his opinions and it thereby becomes a truism? As far as all clones being atheists, a cloned being will not have any inherent aversion to any religious beliefs, they will learn just like any other human being.

Winterclaw · Nov 20, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Read the book and think about it. It makes sense.

If a clone is made by the government, there will certainly be a push to make sure it is raised as an atheist at least.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 21, 2009, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Read the book and think about it. It makes sense.

If a clone is made by the government, there will certainly be a push to make sure it is raised as an atheist at least.

Clones what a better way to make the Perfect Soldier, I bet they are already doing it in Area 51.

AtomicMew · Nov 21, 2009, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Dear Winterclaw,

csb

On a side note, religiosity is 50% genetics. That's a fact.

Lord Sojar · Nov 21, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

I'm all for cloning and stem cell research. I am also pro choice to the point that it should be used in cases of rape, incest, and cases where using birth control (all forms combined) failed for some freakish reason.

I am against late term abortions, however.

I don't believe a human is a human without our mind; our mind is what makes us unique from all the other life forms on our planet. Without it, we are just another ape-like creature that can perform basic functions.

Cloning has many interesting advantages, and I believe that a clone is a person if it can think and use its mind. It would be wrong to create clones that were "alive", with thoughts and emotions, and harvest them or some such crazy plan.

bhavv · Nov 21, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

I fully support cloning / genetic modification / genetic engineering / stem cell research from having studied them all on my Biology degree, though I have forgotten much of the science behind it now.

I fully trust the ethical controlls that are required in any kind of research, and know that people wouldnt be allowed to just get cloned or have modified kids without a good reason, but stem cell research / cloning to provide fully functioning organs and even nerve repair, and genetic engineering to eradicate genetic disease are the what these sciences are trying to achieve, not all the rubbish sci fi mumbo jumbo that you hear from authors, hollywood and brain dead religious nut jobs who still think evolution cant be real. These people dont even have the slightest idea about any of the science or facts behind modern Biology, but just feel like opposing it because it contradicts god in some way, you know, just like astronomers that were trying to prove that the Earth is not flat or the centre of the universe.

Biology is currently very much hindered as a science and unable to progress due to many of its recent discoveries being made illegal to research further on. The reason why humans have not yet been cloned or genetically engineered is due to both these being illegal, but we have had the knowledge to do both ever since the completion of the Human Genome Project.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 21, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

My answer to all those who say cloning is against God's will: If God didn't intend for us to use our brains to their fullest capacity, why did he give them to us?